Transforming the access experience of Disabled People

Redbridge Disability Association

98 – 100 Ilford Lane

Ilford Essex  IG1 2LD

020 8514 2565                   0794 198 8846

Fax 020 8514 2515                   Minicom 020 8514 5686

clivedurdle@reda-info.co.uk         www.reda-info.co.uk

Charity no 1050348             Company Limited by Guarantee 2888472

Together we solve

 

Transforming the access experience of disabled people

 

A discussion document to David Morris

Senior Policy Advisor to the Mayor of London (Disability)

 

Clive Durdle MSc BA (Econ) FCIH

Director         

29 November 2007  

 

Redbridge Disability Association aims to:

 

·      Encourage and support disabled people to play an active role in the community

·      Help bring about change

·      Seek improvements to services and facilities for disabled people and carers

·      Work closely and effectively with all those involved in the lives of disabled people 

Mobility?

 

Able July 2007 p51 has an article about powered wheelchairs that notes:

 

“most still resemble traditional manual wheelchairs to some extent; hardly surprising since all have their origin in American wheelchair manufacturer Everest and Jenning’s idea – round 50 years ago to add a drive mechanism to an existing manual wheelchair.”

 

Advertisements for mobility scooters and wheelchairs commonly use terms like “invacare”.  Is a medical model still prevalent?  Is thinking incremental instead of – as has happened with the Dyson Vacuum Cleaner – stopping and thinking matters through from first principles?

 

Freight transport over the last few decades has undergone a revolution, from the old individual movement of small packets in nets and pallets in ports to containers.

 

Is the world of “mobility” in a pre containerisation state?

 

Design for life

 

Everyone has problems about getting themselves or moving something from A to B, or things changing with time.  The last mile problem is a classic issue in transport studies.

 

Some problems are easily solved, others complex.   For probably historical and social reasons disability issues may not have been tackled as general design or engineering or technical issues, but an interesting perspective is that any invention is a prosthetic to enable.

 

The tasks we all face are reasonably well defined – getting up, getting dressed, toileting and bathing, self care, relationships, eating, getting out of our homes, working, getting around, finding things we need, exercise.

 

Some of these issues become more problematic and complex with disabilities but they are not difficult problems.

 

Disability focussed solutions tend to be wheel or stick or ramp based, with some hoisting.  For example, someone may have a hoist to get out of bed, some form of wheel chair or Zimmer frame or crutch to get to a shower, a lightweight wheelchair to get to a car that then has to be put in the car.  There may be internal and external wheelchairs.  There may have been “disabled adaptations” to homes.  Please find attached a paper about this.

 

There are many very small very specialist firms in the disability world, with strong links to health care organisations.  It is an interesting business sector with elements of early industrial revolution Birmingham type models and very large health based – and therefore possibly institutionalised – organisations.  Prices are acknowledged to be very high in comparison to other sectors.  The business model is about adapting, not design from first principles.

 

But Britain is a world leader in design and invention – Conran, Dyson, Royal College of Arts, Architecture, Concorde, Hovercraft, Sinclair, Commission on Architecture and the Built Environment.

 

Getting Around

 

There are several modes of transport – walking, cycling, cars, vans, buses, trains, ships and planes.  These have reasonably clear functions with overlaps – towards freight or people, a few people or many people, short or medium or long range, needing various levels of infrastructure, roads, railway tracks, all terrain, air traffic control, transport logistics.

 

Sustainability, climate change, and ecological orientation are now core issues in transport strategy.

 

Disability focussed solutions may be understood as adaptive – for example adding wheels to a chair and then a motor, or designing buses with ramps.  I am unaware of the sedan being used much, but the ancient way of carrying kings and important people did have all terrain advantages!  The stretcher trolley is still used in some social situations like hospitals.

 

Purchasing of goods on the internet seems to have reached a plateau – we seem to have a very strong preference for multimedia experiences whilst shopping, touching and feeling and looking at and smelling what we are after, discussing, negotiating, having human interactions. We love to complete a ritual of exchange in person in a busy place like a market. 

 

What do we do to get to a market or shopping centre or place of work or leisure?  A few walk, some cycle, many use a car, some a bus or train.  We have invented park and ride as a solution to the issues caused.

 

Redbridge Disability Association manages a Shopmobility service at the Mall Ilford.  A typical journey for a disabled member involves getting themselves together to get out of the house, ordering and waiting for Community Transport, being taken to the shopping centre, transferring to a mobility scooter, having an interesting experience using it in town, waiting in various queues, interacting with various staff and individuals when transacting business, struggling with shopping and struggling home afterwards.

 

I understand this type of experience as being a touchstone of are we seriously working towards integrated transport solutions with easy transfers between transport modes?  The agenda is wider than “door to door” – it should encompass all aspects of a person’s life and take account of the specific issues people face.  Are we truly working towards human pro – active systems?

 

There may be a significant gap in the suite of transport solutions because the habit of adaptation has diverted attention from thinking things through from a person centred perspective.

 

The Solo

 

Wheelchairs and mobility scooters may be seen as a prototype single person vehicle (SPV), but the disability focus has prevented it as being seen as a logical transport niche.  Jeanette Winterson in Stone Gods uses a similar idea to what this paper proposes that she calls the Solo.

 

The concept is of a short to medium range multi purpose vehicle, able to carry a person, shopping, possibly a baby, possibly two people, with reasonable all terrain capabilities and weather protection, ability to go down shopping aisles and similar small spaces, that looks good like a Smart Car and becomes as fashionable as a Lambretta. 

 

It is between cycling and cars and may be best developed first in cycle friendly environments like the new towns or large pedestrianised areas.  With this paper is a paper about Dutch cycling strategy, which outlines the infrastructure needs of this proposal.

 

The car is not a good design solution when it has a single occupant – American High Occupancy Vehicle lanes are a tacit admission of that.  The concept is of a range of small personal transport solutions that may be tailored to individual preferences. There have been some prototypes like Toyota’s I – unit

 

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/robots/toyoto-ifoot-and-iunit-026866.php

 

There are other design possibilities – these may sound like science fiction and James Bond but many of these have evolved in the planetary eco-systems and available technologies in robotics and similar fields have found appropriate solutions.

 

Spiders with eight legs and abilities to create webs are of note.  Darwin found spiders on the Beagle far out at sea – they had flown there on their webs.

 

James Bond type technologies for climbing walls or even jet packs may be considered.

 

Why are not rock climbing and abseiling technologies widely used in the disability world?

 

What about sailing and water based technologies?

 

Are we too concerned about ramps and steps and lifts when all terrain equipment that can safely climb vertical walls is probably already available?  The fields of Potholing, kayaking, space exploration, fighter pilots, robotics, artificial intelligence, and space exploration may already have appropriate solutions to cross fertilise.

 

This paper envisages a series of personalised solutions to whatever issues someone faces – we do not change the weather when it is bad, we dress up appropriately.

Standardisation

 

The other main vector is around standardisation of design solutions.  There are common issues like fixing equipment safely that may be resolved by both designing the thing to be fixed and the receiving mechanism together – as has happened with containerisation. Because we are transporting humans, the situation someone is fixed in should be comfortable, well designed, and relaxing and not institutionalised.  The needs of people with autistic spectrum disorders is currently under researched.

 

The idea is that the “solo” may be used on medium scale – cars, minivans, buses coaches and trams – and large scale – trains ships aircraft – easily and appropriately.  The pieces should all fit together and come apart easily.  Why not put four solos together to create a road car? A single person electrically powered version of something using design concepts from the Citroen C3 Pluriel is a further example of the possibilities I am envisaging.

 

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=Citroen+C3+pluriel&hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=AQM&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title

 

There is no reason that standardisation should not apply to the whole system – including homes, all of the built environment, offices, shops, and transport.

Mapping Accessibility

I am the Director of a small disability charity in London – Redbridge Disability Association – and have a name with interesting historical and geographical reverbations – Clive Durdle.

 

I am exploring the following – apologies for its length, and would welcome any help you may be able to suggest!

 

I should be reasonably good at cartography but have somehow avoided the hands on stuff although I do have A levels in Geography and Maths and a Masters Degree in Urban Planning!

 

The following does describe the issues – what are good introductions to mapmaking for young people? Has anyone done this for disabled young people?

 

Project Outline

 

To help disabled young people:

 

• To be aware of the issues that affect their lives

• To record them in their own voice

• To use available technologies to map these issues, present these issues to others and negotiate appropriate solutions.

 

Introduction

 

Being or becoming a disabled person leads to serious complexities and issues of management – one study found a disabled person had to navigate between 27 different people and organisations to get the solutions they needed.

 

Any disabled person by definition is a highly experienced project manager and director, negotiator and problem solver. Disabled people have very high levels of experience, skills, attitudes and knowledge to build fulfilling lives. There are very real issues of institutionalisation to be tackled.

 

 

A day in the life of a disabled young person

 

If it can go wrong, it will, especially around young disabled people.

 

Coherent assessment, support and response networks and solutions do not yet exist for disabled young people. There are bits of good services, but they are not seamless, joined up and person centred.

 

The allegedly normal becomes regularly as complex as a mission to the moon. Going to a youth club requires taxis turning up with appropriate ramps. One young man had to be manually handled into a youth worker’s vehicle and taken home without his wheelchair – meaning he could not go to school the next day because the taxi did not turn up. Things unravel very rapidly and get very messy very quickly for a disabled young person.

 

Disabled young people spend incredible amounts of time and energy interfacing with hospitals and similar institutions, being ill and completely dependent on others. Their humour in the face of such adversity is humbling.

 

A young woman was not allowed by her college to attend a Xmas Ice skating event because of alleged health and safety concerns, and was formally marked as a poor attender after informing the college she had difficulty getting there in the mornings because of health reasons and would they make reasonable adjustments. That college has a very good equalities policy but had somehow interpreted disabled access as being about ramps and not about attitudes.

 

A young woman was turned away from a night club because her face did not fit. Restaurants like Pizza Hut frequently become full when a disabled person in a wheelchair turns up. There is institutionalized discrimination in that shops refurbishing frequently “forget” to design in universal access.

 

Bullying does occur in schools.

 

The United Nations [1] has written:

 

Despite being the world’s largest minority, persons with disabilities are largely ignored. Youth with disabilities are amongst the most marginalized and poorest of the world’s youth. Although, they face the same issues as their non-disabled peers, societal prejudices, barriers, and ignorance further exacerbate their concerns.

 

In many places, there is considerable stigma and sometimes shame imposed on disabled young people and their families by their communities. Feeling embarrassed and ashamed, families often do not acknowledge having a disabled young person and may limit the interaction of the disabled young person with the rest of society. The greatest impediments continue to be discrimination, prejudice, and social isolation.

 

Ignorance of disability concerns results in the needs of disabled young people being unrealised, leading to a loss of self-esteem, self-worth and the creation of social isolation.

 

Globally, there are over 650 million disabled people, and around a third of these are youth. Nearly 80% of disabled young people live in developing countries, and although the actual figures are uncertain, it is clear that disabled young people form a significant proportion of the youth population in every society. Disabled young people are severely under-researched, with limited data on prevalence and the effects on youth themselves.

 

Education is as critical for realizing the full potential of disabled young people, as it is for their peers. Yet, more than 98% of children with disabilities in developing countries do not attend school. Educational institutions are often inaccessible and lack appropriate facilities, and teachers frequently have preconceived ideas about what is appropriate for their students with disabilities, often resulting in the exclusion of disabled young people from certain activities.

 

Not receiving the skills and qualifications to function in the wider society, limits the employment opportunities for disabled young people. Unemployment rates for persons with disabilities are higher than the non-disabled population in every society and discrimination and negative perceptions of disabled young people pose a formidable barrier to disabled young people looking for employment.

 

However, these societal misapprehensions can be addressed. Greater awareness and understanding of disabilities is fundamental to improving this situation.

 

Technological innovations such as the Internet and software adaptations have created opportunities for disabled young people, helping to break down barriers and increase their sense of belonging and interaction with their peers.

 

The World Programme of Action for Youth (WPAY), adopted by the United Nations, in 1995, urges countries to take measures to develop the possibilities of youth with disabilities, paying particular attention to the education of disabled young people.

 

Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities

 

In 2006, the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities was adopted by the General Assembly. It offers youth with disabilities in numerous countries effective human rights for the very first time, facilitating the process that empowers them to address the multiple societal challenges they face. It prohibits disability-related discriminatory practices against persons with disabilities and asks Governments to implement legislation and measures to promote the rights of persons with disabilities. It stipulates the rights to education, employment, health and well-being to ensure that young persons with disabilities develop their full human potential.

 

[1] http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unyin/disability.htm

 

The Proposal

 

We wish to evolve personal solutions, and assist with the creation of strong social networks and life plans or maps. This involves close liaison about health care and support planning, both with a wide variety of immediate issues and into the long term – the creation of life maps.

 

These would be multi-dimensional maps:

 

• Where someone has come from, where they are now, where do they wish to go

 

• Their geographical environment – how accessible is it, issues, strengths, weaknesses.

 

• Their social environment – their relationships with institutions, communities, businesses and individuals. Attitudes they meet.

 

Instead of negotiating a probably incomplete and institutionalised set of “services” for which someone may or may not be “eligible” we want to plan and map in detail with disabled young people a multi dimensional change architecture that is right for the person, their family and their community. We wish to develop self-assessment templates about this. The agenda here includes individual budgets.

 

Volunteering, the arts, sport, transport and employment are critical parts of this. The experience of the Beijing Paralympics has many excellent examples that can be used in London to construct a lasting legacy of a truly accessible Redbridge and London.

 

John Barrow Cosmic Imagery writes:

 

Maps symbolise a human desire to understand and be in control of our surroundings. To map a territory was tantamount to possessing it. Maps of the heavens offered an ultimate reassurance that all is well with the Universe, that we were at a focal controlling point within it and had a special part to play in its unfolding story.

 

We are aiming to construct personal life maps – learning to act of one owns volition with others.

 

 

Mapping

 

We are aiming to get disabled young people mapping their experience and environments in terms of accessibility and attitude, and reporting this on things like google maps and the equivalents of rough guides for disabled people – mapping our lives.

 

Maps are very useful things to help us get from one place to another. Why not create personal maps together of where we want to go with our lives?

 

Geography and disability are completely interrelated. We run an information service here, which is about managing information, and maps are a superb way of managing information!

 

We all use maps everyday of varying sophistication. I have done some sailing and very detailed charts are used to navigate safely – my brother in law still had to be rescued by the RNLI from some sandbanks though! Mountaineers also use detailed maps.

 

There are also now satnavs and rough guides and tube maps.

I am proposing that a small group of disabled young people begin to record their day – to – day experiences using modern technology like blogs, google maps and web pages and begin to build up detailed maps of their experiences.

 

Actual physical barriers like steps at a tube station would be recorded as they are experienced by a disabled person – the equivalent of a crevasse in a glacier. Attitudinal barriers, customer focus would also be recorded allowing a grading or rating of different places, as you do for hotels and restaurants.

 

I would wish to cascade this idea by starting locally and then getting it copied regionally, nationally and internationally – eventually achieving a world map of what it is like to be disabled where ever you are.

 

As Gregory said to Augustine a long time ago – mountains are climbed a step at a time!

 

 

 

 

 

 

To: Clive Durdle

How are you? I was thinking about your geographical map online. Could I use the maps for board game, which is called Total Chaos. If it is any good for your project. just e-mail me back please! thanks. see you in Wednesday. p k

 

Scott Rains wrote:

 

Wendy,

 

Keeping you in the loop on the buzz around that disability lifestyles mapping project.

 

Scott Rains

The Rolling Rains Report

 

http://www.RollingRains.com

 

 

From: “Clive Durdle” <clivedurdle@MAC.COM

 

Thanks everyone for your prompt responses! My thinking is only at the what if stage – the very wide vista at the beginning of a project – everything needs doing! There might be the following issues – please add anything else

 

* Standard sets of symbols

* Various types of projection

* Making it useful to a wide variety of disabled people, professionals and others

* What are the technological possibilities and limits?

* Paper based versions, audio versions, other formats

* Design issues – making it beautiful and useable, various formats – the London Underground map, Peters, Mercators projections, ….

* Open source

* How do we best record and manage what is happening? A separate web page?

 

The log you envision would be VERY useful for planners and I like the idea of using the maps to help display the problems encountered. As a university affiliated person I could ask the disability director to ask for willing participants for such a blog. Downloading the information into a map would be the problem for us to overcome – not everyone knows how to use a GIS to record such data. Have you created such a map that we can look at so that we can all be on the same page?

 

Good to meet you! Juana

 

Juana Ibáñez

Undergraduate Advisor

Department of Geography

Milneburg Hall 342

University of New Orleans

2000 Lakeshore Drive

New Orleans, Louisiana 70148

504-280-3103 (office)

504-280-6294 (departmental office)

504-280-1123 (fax)

 

hi Scott & Clive

 

I am just coming back from Seoul, and rather fuzzy, but happy to see your conversation.

 

We are building a tool similar to what you describe to chart green living, nature, cultural and social justice sites. OpenGreenMap.org is online at this point but later, there is potential to make printed maps. Scott is the first to point out how useful it would be for disabled travelers. I don’t know that the everyday experiences you describe could be captured as sites on the map, but they certainly could be included in the open public Comment section or as images in the Multimedia tab on any of the mapped sites.

Also, for every site on the map, there is an ‘ inclusion indicator’ of whether it is wheelchair- or child- friendly, free or near public transport so more people can get involved (see page 5 of the attached PDF or the OpenGreenMap.org site). As Scott pointed out, that still does not tell us everything about being able to really participate once you get in, though.

 

Here is a 5 minute video (move your cursor off the page after it has started to have the annoying header disappear).

 

http://www.greenmap.org/greenhouse/en/node/4977

 

I also attached an OGM press release.

 

Currently, you need to be a registered Green Mapmaker to create a map (GreenMap.org’s Participate section has details, we have projects in 54 countries in our network) but already, anyone can suggest a site, and by the time OGM is officially launched in Spring, everyone will be able to add sites to the World View map. We are expecting a big audience, and your network’s input will give many people a fresh perspective on real life challenges.

Also, just to mention, I worked with a crew of graphic design students in Seoul who are making a Green Map about a riverside park and disability access, hazards, wildlife and fitness. They may be designing some related icons, if so I will let you know (they only have a short time on this project though). I was also in a big park (Namsan) where cars, bikes and skaters are banned so blind and other folks can walk or run freely without fear of being mowed down – it’s a small mountain so not so good for wheelchairs though.

 

I hesitate to connect with another listserv as I am overwhelmed with email and shorthanded with a zillion projects underway but happy to talk with you further… have a great weekend…

- all the best, Wendy

 

Wendy E. Brawer

Founding Director

Green Map System

Think Global, Map Local!

Global – http://GreenMap.org

NYC – http://GreenAppleMap.org

+1 212 674 1631

web@greenmap.org

 

Virtual volunteering

 

One of the major issues about being a disabled young person is being able to meet regularly because of transport and health issues. This means other forms of communication become critical – and electronically does provide all sorts of opportunities. Redbridge Disability Association is beginning to review its web presence and we are setting up a blog and looking at a discussion forum.

 

There is more to do, like ensuring our disability friendliness and using web search engines like Cool Iris – that found the UN report at the beginning.

 

The web discussion above about mapping also includes people around the planet and this will grow.

 

Clive Durdle

Director

Redbridge Disability Association

98 -100 Ilford Lane

Ilford Essex IG1 2LD

020 8514 2565 0794 198 8846

clivedurdle@reda-info.co.uk

Company Limited by Guarantee 2888472

Registered Charity 1050348

Together we solve

Scientists open doors with the power of the mind

#mce_temp_url#

* Michael Fitzpatrick
* The Guardian, Thursday 22 January 2009
* Article history

A mock-up of a home controlled by the power of thought has been successfully piloted by a hospital in Italy, promising new levels of independence for the severely disabled.

Scientists showed that people could open doors or operate lights, a telephone, a small robot and even a robotic hand by wearing a strip of electrodes on their head to pick up brainwaves that signal “interest” and send them to a computer that interprets them as desired actions.

Demonstrating the system in the Fondazione Santa Lucia research hospital in Rome, Professor Fabio Babiloni said this was one of the first lab-based mock-ups in the world to successfully test this form of home automation – or “assistive domotics” – by mind control.

He predicts that within three years such a system would be of practical benefit to the severely disabled.

“The progress in developing brain computer interfaces (BCI) has grown very rapidly in the last few years to the point where we are capable of 85% accuracy in the computer interpreting a subject’s desired action, such as turning a wheelchair or switching home appliances on or off,” says Babiloni. “The type of brainwave we pinpoint is common to nearly all people when making this ‘focusing interest’ thought.”

Nor is much training required. “A 10-minute familiarisation session is usually enough,” says Babiloni.

That is because the brain wave that is produced when we “show interest”, for example when we focus on a light switch, is well mapped, distinct and almost uniform from person to person.

To demonstrate, one of the Santa Lucia team wore a fabric headset connected to the BCI and could open doors, switch on a fan or adjust lights by concentrating on a menu on a monitor. Two to three attempts are usually needed for each action.

Other applications, apart from gaming and use in a smart home for the exceptionally lazy, is in space, says Babiloni: mind-controlled devices would be a boon to muscle-wasted astronauts.

Dali’s St John of the Cross

#mce_temp_url#

Christ of St John of the Cross
The Salvador Dali masterpiece Christ of St John of the Cross first went on show at Kelvingrove on 23 June 1952, and has ever since aroused admiration, criticism and controversy. The striking angle of the crucified Christ on the Cross, the eerie contrast of light and dark, and the magical and effortless surface effects all make an unforgettable impression on the viewer.

The strange title refers to Dali’s principal inspiration for the painting – a pen and ink drawing made by the Spanish Carmelite friar who was canonised as St John of The Cross (1542–1591). The drawing intrigued Dali when he saw it preserved in the Convent at Avila, as it was made after the Saint had a vision in which he saw the Crucifixion as from above, looking down.

Dali proceeded to paint the Crucifixion set above the rocky harbour of his home village of Port Lligat in Spain, with the enigmatic addition of boats and figures copied from pictures by Velazquez and Le Nain.

I see this as critical evidence that Jesus is a mythical figure..

Simplexity or why traffic jams happen

By Jeffrey Kluger

When traffic on a highway is very light, cars behave like the air molecules in the room, doing whatever they please. When traffic is very heavy, they collect into something closer to the molecule in the frozen carbon, going nowhere at all. It’s chaos at one extreme and robustness at the other – neither one very complex. But things change at the top of the arc, up in the area where average speed ranges between 25 and 45 miles per hour and the volume of vehicles ranges between 5,000 and 6,200 cars, buses and trucks passing a given point in that same hour. There things are precariously balanced, with almost anything able to tip them one way or another. A single driver in a single car reaching for a coffee cup and absently tapping his brakes can trigger a ripple of tail lights that instantly turns into a clot of slowed traffic. A few people exiting the highway can open a clear spot that relieves pressure and increases speed for miles.

I have recently been experimenting with hypermiling – very interesting.

I want a new law – to prosecute behaviour that disrupts traffic flow – using brakes unnecessarily, changing lanes and blocking others, staying in the wrong lane at too slow a speed and similar.

Has no one seen the chaos a lorry overtaking another going uphill causes, added to by an uncertain driver scared of overtaking the juggernauts?

And what is this going up right behind a lorry and then pulling out about?

Life Rocks

 

Earth’s ‘mineral kingdom’ evolved hand in hand with life

 

    * 19 November 2008 by Marcus Chown

 

AS LIFE evolved in all its abundance and diversity, so too did the minerals that make up Earth’s rocks. Two-thirds of the kingdom of minerals bear the traces of the presence of life – a view that could shake up our picture of Earth’s geological history and even help find life on other planets.

“Rocks and life evolved in parallel,” says Robert Hazen of the Carnegie Institution’s Geophysical Laboratory in Washington DC. “It’s so obvious – you wonder why we geologists didn’t think of it before.”

According to Hazen, the story begins with a mere 12 minerals that existed in the dust grains of the pre-solar nebula – minerals such as diamond, created in the fury of supernova explosions. When the sun ignited, heat boosted the number to around 60. The formation of Earth and subsequent geochemical processes upped that to around 500, and the switching on of the conveyor belt of plate tectonics led to the creation of another 1000. “But it was life, which made its first appearance about 4 billion years ago, that made the biggest difference,” says Hazen. “It boosted the number of minerals to around 5000.”

Life brought profound changes to Earth’s atmosphere and ocean chemistry. Photosynthesising organisms created abundant oxygen, and in this environment the chemical processes of oxidation and weathering generated a swathe of minerals containing metals such as iron. “Four billion years ago, metals on the surface like iron and copper remained pure and shiny,” says Hazen. “The new atmosphere oxidised them, creating a host of new minerals.” Approximately half of all known mineral species owe their existence to oxidation or weathering.

Gary Ernst at Stanford University in California describes the study as “breathtaking” and says it could revolutionise the way minerals are described. “No one until now has put the story together in such a coherent way,” adds David Saja, curator of mineralogy at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History in Ohio.

 

Anyone want to write the equivalent of the ancestor’s tale that discusses the co-evolution of minerals and life, and not only how coal formed but the feedback mechanisms that led to skeletons, gall stones and gout.

 

Biogeology? 

 

Palin et al

 Abe’s Challenge: Declare your faith in a hostile church, win beer!

 

ApostateAbe

 

This morning, I decided to go to a service of my local Pentecostal church. I was curious. According to a recent news story, Pentecostalism is the religion of Sarah Palin, and it is more dominant in South America than Catholicism.

The Pentecostal church I went to this morning is the Faith Tabernacle Assemblies of God church in Klamath Falls, Oregon. In the lobby, they sold little vials of anointing oil for six dollars (“purely symbolic” the office attendant told me). And they advertised courses, on Thursday evenings, of Kirk Cameron’s and Ray Comfort’s Way of the Master courses, the origin of the famous banana argument.

 

Pentecostal services are not your typical Sunday morning boring affairs. Their main divisions with the rest of Protestant Evangelicalism is that they believe in modern faith healings, speaking in tongues, prophecies, and very emotionally-driven sermons. Out of any church in a typical town, the Pentecostal church is most likely to resemble a dangerous cult. And Faith Tabernacle, from what I experienced this morning, is no exception. The service began with the pastor telling of how an old man in the congregation got healed of lung cancer, though the doctors said he wouldn’t live for six months. Because of his faith, he got a radiological scan and “not one thread” of cancer was left! The whole congregation ate it up. Cancer is one of those ailments that is popular for faith healers–ending in either death, which can be ignored, or in natural remission, which can only be the hand of God at work in our lives. Never a word on healing something permanent, like cystic fibrosis, type-1 diabetes, HIV, or limb amputations.

 

It was getting toward the end of the service, with plenty of shouting and chanting and emotional displays, when I was looking through my Bible and shouted, “Oh Jesus!” I got up, approached the pastor and said, with the same emotionally-charged style of speaking that the sermon had inspired me with,

 

“Sorry pastor, I have got to interrupt.”

 

He said, “No you don’t.”

 

I said, “I do! I do! It is a matter of life and death!”

 

“Are you saved?” he asked me in the coldest and most un-animated tone that morning.

 

I said, “No, that is the problem!”

 

I turned around and faced the congregation holding the Bible.

 

“I just read a passage in the Word of God. This is the Word of God! In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, it says that if any one of your friends or family members entices you privately saying to worship other gods, then you must put him to death! You must be the first to stone him, and then everyone else must stone him too!”

 

By this time, four guys were standing right behind me, maybe to make sure I didn’t do anything too strange. Most of the congregation was speaking in tongues, apparently pretending I wasn’t there. I continued,

 

“So I must say to everyone very publicly, not privately, publicly, I would like everyone to worship Chuck Norris and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. So it is public, now you don’t have to have to stone me to death.”

 

The four guys behind me heard that part (one of them laughed nervously a little like it was a joke), and they grabbed me and started walking me out. I continued my plea with the Bible in my hand,

 

“It is public now, PLEASE DON’T STONE ME!!”

 

In the lobby with the door to the worship hall closed, one of those four men, an old man, asked,

 

“WHO DO YOU WORSHIP?”

 

I said, “Chuck Norris and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.”

 

“Not in this church you don’t, get out of here.”

 

So I gave him the Bible, backed out of the entrance, wished them a happy Sunday, and left, glad I still had all my bones intact.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

The next episode I hope will be written by you. My challenge is this: go to any Biblicist (Bible literalist) church on Sunday morning, stand up, and tell everyone loudly that they should worship other gods, and you are saying this because you don’t want true Christians to stone you for saying it secretly. If you do, I will mail you five dollars for a beer at your local pub.

 

Steps:

 

1) Prepare your speech.

2) Give your speech sometime during the service.

3) Write your inspiring account in this thread (at FreeRatio.org).

4) Private message to me your address and the church’s name and town. I will contact the church staff and verify the story.

5) Wait for your beer money!

 

By the way, if you live in the Bible Belt, I will increase the prize money to $$ ten dollars $$.

 

Creativity is accepted and encouraged. As long as the feat embarrasses the congregation and/or yourself, you deserve the cash for a good brew.

 

 

Clivedurdle

 

I was there four years ago! Saw it on the map, thought there might be some pretty falls to see, got there, asked where the falls were…..got a better tip… Crater Lake! Superb! Made a joke to the tourist information lady that did they get many aliens in that fell completely flat..

 

As ex Pentecostal – actually brought up in AOG I think you just got ignored as a nutter.

 

It needs a far subtler approach, probably with humour.

ApostateAbe

Veteran Member

 

 

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post

I was there four years ago! Saw it on the map, thought there might be some pretty falls to see, got there, asked where the falls were…..got a better tip… Crater Lake! Superb! Made a joke to the tourist information lady that did they get many aliens in that fell completely flat..

 

As ex Pentecostal – actually brought up in AOG I think you just got ignored as a nutter.

 

It needs a far subtler approach, probably with humour.

Think of a better way, and do it, my friend. You’ll have yourself a beer.

 

I asked where the falls were when I first got here. Turns out that the falls disappeared because of human irrigation needs.

 

Lógos Sokratikós

 

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe View Post

According to a recent news story, Pentecostalism [...] is more dominant in South America than Catholicism.

No, it is not.

http://lanic.utexas.edu/project/rla/…otestants.html

It’s just growing.

http://www.religion.info/english/art…icle_121.shtml

Protestantism is 15% on average and pentecostalism is a subset.

 

ApostateAbe

 

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe View Post

According to a recent news story, Pentecostalism [...] is more dominant in South America than Catholicism.

No, it is not.

http://lanic.utexas.edu/project/rla/…otestants.html

It’s just growing.

http://www.religion.info/english/art…icle_121.shtml

Protestantism is 15% on average and pentecostalism is a subset.

Thanks for clearing that up. I feared the worst.

 

 

Clivedurdle

 

Arguably the terms religion and South America are oxymorons!

 

Foucault’s Pendulum by Umberto Eco discusses the wondrous mixtures of catholicism, pentecostalism, African and Caribbean religions that are very common!

 

Which might be a better way to go in to an AOG – as a voodoo pentecostal catholic!

 

Quote:

02/07/2007

CHRISTIANITY IN AFRICA

 

Jesus in the Morning, Voodoo in the Evening

 

By Thilo Thielke

The old natural religions continue to thrive in Africa. While Christianity and Islam vie for supremacy in many countries, they have failed to banish the rain gods and spirits south of the Sahara. Frequently the pagan rites have fused with a faith in Jesus Christ.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/…463787,00.html

 

http://www.brazzil.com/articles/197-…l-country.html

 

Lógos Sokratikós

 

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post

Arguably the terms religion and South America are oxymorons!

 

Foucault’s Pendulum by Umberto Eco discusses the wondrous mixtures of catholicism, pentecostalism, African and Caribbean religions that are very common!

 

Which might be a better way to go in to an AOG – as a voodoo pentecostal catholic!

Perfect storm and a psychiatrist’s worst nightmare.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Bumble Bee Tuna View Post

Why would I want to go be a jerk to a bunch of people who weren’t bothering me?

You mean besides the beer? These people are trying their best to brainwash members of almost every community into a profoundly wrong and harmful belief system through emotion, fear, lies and exclusion of the opposing viewpoints. That is why I chose the Pentecostal church, but you can do it at any church that really ticks you off. From my perspective, it is being a jerk if you accept that it is moral for their brainwashing sessions to go uninterrupted from members of the public that the church persistently invites. Of course, different people have different ideas about what it takes to be a jerk.

ApostateAbe 

Clivedurdle

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lógos Sokratikós View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post

Arguably the terms religion and South America are oxymorons!

 

Foucault’s Pendulum by Umberto Eco discusses the wondrous mixtures of catholicism, pentecostalism, African and Caribbean religions that are very common!

 

Which might be a better way to go in to an AOG – as a voodoo pentecostal catholic!

Perfect storm and a psychiatrist’s worst nightmare.

Thankeezur!

 

Actually I see them as quite similar!

 

Now, what would a good costume, props and script be?

 

ApostateAbe

 

 

Perfect storm and a psychiatrist’s worst nightmare.

Thankeezur!

 

Actually I see them as quite similar!

 

Now, what would a good costume, props and script be?

I don’t know, but it would be well deserving of two beers.

 

 

 

I just wish you had pictures like you did with your sign holding!

 

ApostateAbe

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuringOn 

Fantastic Abe!

 

I just wish you had pictures like you did with your sign holding!

Thank you, but these are not Abe’s Atheventures. You are going to have to do it yourself. Yeah, walk around the church on Sunday morning and take pictures, and say that you are staking out your real estate claim for when after the Rapture happens. Walk up on stage during the sermon and take a picture of the music equipment. Tell the pastor that you are going to turn the church into a temple of Chuck Norris. That is such as awesome idea. Two beers for you if you do it.

 

I miss your Atheist evangelizing / demonstrating threads Abe. Those were my weekly highlight for quite a while.

 

This idea though I don’t like so much.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe View Post

You mean besides the beer? These people are trying their best to brainwash members of almost every community into a profoundly wrong and harmful belief system through emotion, fear, lies and exclusion of the opposing viewpoints. That is why I chose the Pentecostal church, but you can do it at any church that really ticks you off. From my perspective, it is being a jerk if you accept that it is moral for their brainwashing sessions to go uninterrupted from members of the public that the church persistently invites. Of course, different people have different ideas about what it takes to be a jerk.

Right on! I don’t know how anyone can tolerate religious brainwashing when considering the tactics they use. Most religion’s basic motivating idea is avoindance of eternal suffering and agony. Could they be any more obvious with their fear mongering?

 

Clivedurdle

 

Arguably the terms religion and South America are oxymorons!

 

Foucault’s Pendulum by Umberto Eco discusses the wondrous mixtures of catholicism, pentecostalism, African and Caribbean religions that are very common!

 

Which might be a better way to go in to an AOG – as a voodoo pentecostal catholic!

Perfect storm and a psychiatrist’s worst nightmare.

Just glancing at Foucault’s Pendulum it is probably Eco who led me down the mythicist road!

 

Quote:

Do you realize how great the second and third centuries after Christ were? Not because of the pomp of the empire in its sunset but because of what was burgeoning in the Mediterranean basin then. In Rome the Praetorians were slaughtering their emperors, but in the Mediterranean area there flourished the epoch of Apuleius, the mysteries of Isis, and the great return to spirituality: Neoplatonism, gnosis. Blissful times, before the Christians seized power and began to put heretics to death. A splendid epoch, in which dwelled the nous, a time dazzled by ecstasies and peopled with presences, emanations, demons and angelic hosts….

Quote:

Our meeting with the abbess of the terrario was calm, cordial, civilised and rich in folklore. She was a big black woman with a dazzling smile. At first you would have said she was a housewife, but when she began talking I understood how women like this could rule the cultural life of Salvador.

 

“Are the orixas people or forces.” The mae de santo answered that they were forces….but how did she prevent ordinary people from seeing them as warriors, women, saints of the Catholic Church? ….”Its even more complicated in an umbanda. saint Anthony and Saints Cosmas and Damian are part of the Oxala line. Sirens, water nymhs, caboclas of the sea and the rivers, sailors and guiding stars are par of the Yemanja line.

Imagine the end scenes of Indiana Jones and the Ark of the Covenant when the Nazis open it.

 

How would we go around recreating images of hell, scaring the bejeebas out of people?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbanda

 

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/…areligion.html

The Size of the Temple

Umberto Eco writes in Baudolino:

 

in the Acts of the Apostles it says that God from one man devised our humankind to inhabit the entire face of the earth, its face – not the other side, which doesn’t exist.

 

“I don’t know if you have ever studied the measurements of the Temple, well don’t, because it is enough to drive you crazy. In Kings it says… In chronicles it says…

 

The problem however arises when you read the vision of Ezekiel. Not one measurement holds up, and so a number of pious men have admitted that Ezekiel had indeed had a vision, which is a bit like saying he had drunk too much and was seeing double. Nothing wrong with that , poor Ezekiel (he also had a right to his fun), but then Richard of St Victoire reasoned as follows: if everything, every number, every straw in the Bible has a spiritual meaning, we must clearly understand what it says literally, because it is one thing to say , for the spiritual meaning, that something is three long and another’s length is nine, since these two numbers have different mystical meanings.

 

“The most alert commentators have not succeeded in establishing the exact structure of the Temple. You Christians do not understand that the sacred text is born from a Voice. The Lord, haqadoch baruch hu, that the holy one, may his name always be blessed , when he speaks to his prophets, allows them to hear sounds, but does not show figures, as you people do, with your illuminated pages. The voice surely provokes images in the heart of the prophet, but these images are not immobile; they liquefy, change shape according to the melody of that voice, and if you want to reduce to images the voice of the Lord, blessed always be his name, you freeze that voice, as if it were fresh water turning to ice that no longer quenches thirst, but numbs the limbs in the chill of death,”

Chocolate

This is a web conversation I started a few years ago

 

Chocolate

On the seventh day of the seventh month of the seventh year about seven in the cool of the evening, the seven kings woodcraft folk were seated around a fire in the forest of Epping, having gathered the wood by hand (and added a few pallets brought in a nomadic caravan).

 

 

We had a dream of the promised land, a strange but well known goddess spoke to us, her works are renowned throughout the world from when her medicinal powers were found in the central americas and blended by her priests and priestesses into wondrous concoctions.

 

She did not reveal her name to us but her message was clear – we are to go into all the world and worship her. Her gospel is of peace and love.

 

She has already ordained festivities at auspicious times of the year and her bounty is freely available.

 

But she is not worshipped, hymned, adored, communed with. Where is the Liturgy?

 

Her holy texts have not been recognised, despite her prophetesses and prophets like Nigella Lawson, Green and Blacks, Dahl, Cadbury, and Joanna Harris.

 

Where are the pilgrimages, the retreats, the holy orders?

 

It is time the whole world found the new religion.

 

We are to gather together at regular times and places to commune with her.

 

Ecuador Dark be thy name….

 

 

The promised land is near us!

 

 July 9, 2007, 12:19 AM   

cajela

 

Amen! Preach it, brother! Saints Lindt and Cluizel be praised!

 

amaradulcis_nyx

 

I myself am a devoted follower of these prophets: Valrhona, Valor, Lindt & Sprüngli, and Scharffen Berger.

 

Here is a holy order, of a sort…

70% dot com

 

Hail the dark goddess!

 

espritch

 

The false prophet Nestly has led many astray in my country.

 

Febble

 

OK, I’m yours. I resisted the barbecued kittens, but chocolate….

 

Clivedurdle

 

Originally Posted by espritch View Post

The false prophet Nestly has led many astray in my country.

We were discussing whether their should be heretical religions, we agreed that all chocolaty paths lead to the goddess – what is her holy name?

 

Maybe there should be a trinity of the ipu, the fsm and the chocolate goddess – should we keep her name unspeakable like yhwh?

 

It seems very easy to start religions – mormons, scientologists, and this one does seem to hit the spot!

 

As Pope Gregory put it, mountains are climbed a step at a time – anyone who eats or drinks chocolate anywhere – in a Church, on an Alpha Course, is giving obeisance to the chocolaty of chocalaties!

 

There will of course be mystical and gnostic sects – pure chocolate anyone?

 

We will gather together in her name to break chunks and drink of her elysian liquid that gives us life in all its fullness.

 

We will have full adult baptism services in rivers of chocolate – we will gather by the banks of Bourneville where we first saw the Spirit of the Flake.

 

I think there is another advantage to this religion that has been discussed in other threads….

 

My brother thought people would not want to share their chocolate with others.

 

Go into all the world! The people need a religion of peace and love and chocolate – even Dentists will approve as we are creating work for them!

 

I can see Anglicans and Pentecostals and Catholics converting very easily!

 

 

It is time there was a religion born in the new world!

 

Clivedurdle

 

Chocolate’s Roots in Ancient Mesoamerica

We tend to think of chocolate as a sweet candy created during modern times. But actually, chocolate dates back to the ancient peoples of Mesoamerica who drank chocolate as a bitter beverage.

 

For these people, chocolate wasn’t just a favorite food—it also played an important role in their religious and social lives.

 

The ancient Maya grew cacao and made it into a beverage.

The first people clearly known to have discovered the secret of cacao were the Classic Period Maya (250-900 C.E. [A.D.]). The Maya and their ancestors in Mesoamerica took the tree from the rainforest and grew it in their own backyards, where they harvested, fermented, roasted, and ground the seeds into a paste.

 

When mixed with water, chile peppers, cornmeal, and other ingredients, this paste made a frothy, spicy chocolate drink.

 

The Aztecs adopted cacao.

By 1400, the Aztec empire dominated a sizeable segment of Mesoamerica. The Aztecs traded with Maya and other peoples for cacao and often required that citizens and conquered peoples pay their tribute in cacao seeds—a form of Aztec money.

 

Like the earlier Maya, the Aztecs also consumed their bitter chocolate drink seasoned with spices—sugar was an agricultural product unavailable to the ancient Mesoamericans.

 

Drinking chocolate was an important part of Maya and Aztec life.

Many people in Classic Period Maya society could drink chocolate at least on occasion, although it was a particularly favored beverage for royalty. But in Aztec society, primarily rulers, priests, decorated soldiers, and honored merchants could partake of this sacred brew.

 

Chocolate also played a special role in both Maya and Aztec royal and religious events. Priests presented cacao seeds as offerings to the gods and served chocolate drinks during sacred ceremonies.

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/chocolate/history_intro.html

 

SaguaroJen

 

I sprinkle her blessed ashes upon my coffee.

 

Now as for sons and saints and such, I’m going to need more information – a handbook perhaps? I imagine Sugar will play a prominiant role.

 

For what is Chocolate without Sugar?

 

Clivedurdle

 

Quote:

handbook

Blasphemy!

 

I am after the lost word of the goddess – like Smith finding the golden plates or that Jewish king who “found” Deuteronomy!

 

 

Clivedurdle

 

Although…

 

http://www.greenandblacksdirect.com/…aspx?ProdID=61

 

Imagine one of those in every hotel room around the world!

 

SaguaroJen

Veteran Member

 

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post

Although…

 

http://www.greenandblacksdirect.com/…aspx?ProdID=61

 

Imagine one of those in every hotel room around the world!

But wait! Wasn’t that one written by Joseph Smith?

 

Possible King James edition…

 

Your Personal Jesus

 

Clivedurdle, your sermon has touched my heart. Tell me, what must I, but a humble peasant, do to be enlightened by the Truth?

 

Clivedurdle

 

Seek for the truth of chocolatyness in your heart, tell others, when you partake of this food of the goddess say aloud the holy words the goddess has not yet told me but may have told someone else!

 

We need a goddess prayer to mumble when we are partaking – the hippies got it wrong – it should have been make chocolate not war, and of course the bringing of chocolate to Europe caused the enlightenment!

cajela

 

But what is a religion without splits and schisms?

 

A curse upon ye lukewarm milk chocolate eaters, for ye have departed from the path of dark righteousness.

Ye shall be cast into the nether realms of the pit of Hershey.

 

Babylon Sister

 

I was once a follower of the milky path but was redeemed by the glory that is the Dark Goddess. I am forever grateful.

 

perfessor

 

You haven’t lived until you’ve shaved dark chocolate over a bowl of spaghetti and meatballs.

 

Clivedurdle

 

Originally Posted by cajela View Post

But what is a religion without splits and schisms?

 

A curse upon ye lukewarm milk chocolate eaters, for ye have departed from the path of dark righteousness. Ye shall be cast into the nether realms of the pit of Hershey.

The goddess has told me we must follow the path of St George Orwell – everyone is equal but some are more equal than others – and of course we require a high priestesshood to guide us in the chocolaty paths.

 

Glory unto the flake for ever and ever! Amen!

 

Clivedurdle

 

the Dark Goddess

Her name has been revealed to us!

 

Rejoice! The Dark Goddess is with us!

 

May the peace of the Dark Goddess be with you all.

 

Febble

Location: Google “Febble” if you need to find me.

 

Originally Posted by SaguaroJen View Post

For what is Chocolate without Sugar?

That is vouchsafed only to the elect.

 

Clivedurdle

 

I have been researching – this may not be safe for work viewing.

 

http://www.chocolate.org/misc/hot-chocolate.html

 

Quote:

Chocolate is a psychoactive food. It is made from the seeds of the tropical cacao tree, Theobroma cacao. The cacao tree was named by the 17th century Swedish naturalist, Linnaeus. The Greek term theobroma means literally “food of the gods”. Chocolate has also been called the food of the devil; but the theological basis of this claim is obscure.

 

Febble

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post

I have been researching – this may not be safe for work viewing.

 

http://www.chocolate.org/misc/hot-chocolate.html

 

Quote:

Chocolate is a psychoactive food. It is made from the seeds of the tropical cacao tree, Theobroma cacao. The cacao tree was named by the 17th century Swedish naturalist, Linnaeus. The Greek term theobroma means literally “food of the gods”. Chocolate has also been called the food of the devil; but the theological basis of this claim is obscure.

Pah. Bad statistics, fallacious inference. Of course chocolate isn’t an aphrodisiac.

 

Sex is a choclodisiac.

 

Clivedurdle

 

Wait, wait, so the discovery of the food of the gods of the Dark Goddess not only led to the enlightenment but to Romeo and Juliet and then the romantic novel?

 

Have we discovered how to end war? Mass innoculation and continuous supplies?

 

CelticChic

 

I have been saved and I never knew till now!!

 

funinspace

 

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by espritch View Post

The false prophet Nestly has led many astray in my country.

We were discussing whether their should be heretical religions, we agreed that all chocolaty paths lead to the goddess – what is her holy name?

Ah, but are not followers of Carob not heathens? The infamous John the Baptist is said to have subsisted on the holy Carob mixed with honey during his crossing of the desert. Could it even be the source of the Anti-Dark Godess; the rebel, the divider, the destroyer?

Clivedurdle

Veteran Member

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Part…4/locusts.html

 

Seems it wasn’t carob but locusts! But yes the dark goddess has come to save all the followers of the religions of the old world from their ignorance of her chocolatyness.

 

How can the old world claim great prophets like Jesus and Mo if they had never tasted chocolate? Their messages are false.

 

The saviour of the universe never tasted chocolate. That is no saviour!